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| Which Horse you riding? |
| Barack Obama (D) |
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60% |
[ 3 ] |
| Hillary Clinton (D) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| John McCain (R) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Ron Paul (L) |
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40% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 5 |
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| Author |
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JackedupLockedown
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: extremley unofficial Lostcasts Presidential election exit po |
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Let me know if I need to add additional candidates |
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Brewski
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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even though im from ireland and i wont get to vote lol. i still would like obama to win.
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ebonX
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Can I vote for "None of the Above" (ala Richard Pryor in Brewster's Millions) ... 
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Matt Lafferty
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Not to inject excessive politics (though Matt Lafferty's 9/11 Theory, available now in the theory thread, suggests that Lost is a VERY political show (note Locke haters, he's a cowboy wannabee who can't lead; figure it out!))... but I do recall a LostCast whose hosts very much admired an inspirational senator who Matt Lafferty will be voting for in November....
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JackedupLockedown
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: |
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Putting it into proper context, being that opinions are most like a-holes, as everyone has one and they all usually stink, I have lost all faith in Obama and can't understand how anyone with a brain and free will who applies both would not want Ron Paul to be elected.
I understand that's a strong and potentially rude statement, but I whole heartedly believe it.
I also disagree with Matt Lafferty about the GWB and Locke comparisons. I don't think there is any validity there. I think Locke is a great character and I also believe anyone who feels that Bush will (without question) go down as a horrible president is a fool.
We won't know what Locke is about until the show is over and we won't know if Bush was right or wrong until the war on terror is over.
I would love to discuss this and many more topics with all of you whose opinions I respect as much or more then anyone else I've never meet, but if it gets petty and short sighted I am out.
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Joop©
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:46 am Post subject: |
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I can understand the "none of the above" sentiment.
I've really become disillusioned with politics and politicians.
When things get tough, I find comfort in the things I can truly count on... guns and religion.
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JackedupLockedown
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Ouch your dropped an O-Bomb-a on him.
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Jackie |
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jg
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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If I may interject.
Politics and religion can be divisive.
So, I hope that commentary can be kept with good humor. That is, I anticipate that we can agree to disagree agreeably.
Lest you think my icon reflects my true personality, I will hope to maintain the following visual metaphor:
http://www.deskpicture.com/DPs/Miscellaneous/ThreeStooges.jpg
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"Sensitivity?….WHO CARES"- jg |
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ebonX
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| jg wrote: |
Politics and religion can be divisive.
So, I hope that commentary can be kept with good humor. That is, I anticipate that we can agree to disagree agreeably. |
Well said jg!
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Mark B
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Politics, Religon, Famine and Pestilence : The New Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Discuss (in a nice way).
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Mark B.
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Matt Lafferty
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| jg wrote: |
If I may interject.
Politics and religion can be divisive.
So, I hope that commentary can be kept with good humor. That is, I anticipate that we can agree to disagree agreeably.
Lest you think my icon reflects my true personality, I will hope to maintain the following visual metaphor:
http://www.deskpicture.com/DPs/Miscellaneous/ThreeStooges.jpg |
jg, I wholeheartedly agree. I propose this following rule: this thread is a sandbox where things might get a little messy... but everyone who leaves the sandbox still plays nice in the rest of the forum.
Jacked, I respect your opinion. Further, I am one of the people who thinks Locke is NOT an irresponsible cowboy. However, if he turns out to be just that, then I personally will link the image of Locke throwing the knife, saying "we'll hunt our food" (or something similar) with President Bush giving his inspirational speech at Ground Zero. In both cases, the leadership presented was intoxicating--we all wanted to believe. Time shall tell.
Now... 5 hours until Lost starts!!! Woohoo!!
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jg
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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@ Matt,
I like the sandbox metaphor.
When I was a little kid I played in my sandbox. One day I discovered, in my excavations, some curious items. I filled my pail with these treasures and showed my mom. She said I couldn't play in the sandbox anymore.
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The neighbors had a cat.
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We have trolls. 
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Mark B
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Life is like a sandbox when you're neighbours get a new cat. It doesn't take long for the sh1t to appear.
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Mark B.
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jg
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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The Lostcasts.com sandbox was sanitary for quite some time. Then the cat (troll) found it. So, I see that most of us play in this new sand box. I hope we have enough dogs in the yard.
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Matt Lafferty
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| jg wrote: |
| The Lostcasts.com sandbox was sanitary for quite some time. Then the cat (troll) found it. So, I see that most of us play in this new sand box. I hope we have enough dogs in the yard. |
Well, if by dogs you mean moderators, then I'd imagine we can keep the cat crap at bay quite nicely!
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jg
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yes.
Moderators=watch dogs. (mean slobbery troll eatin' dawgs)
I fancy myself as a Dire Weiner Dog (like a Dire Wolf...only meaner)
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JackedupLockedown
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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The only way debate is enjoyable for all is if it's civil and respectful.
I'm sure we'll disagree often about Lost and otherwise, I just hope (and believe) we can keep the same sort of respectful discourse as we with Lost as it pertains to more divisive and sensitive topics.
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Joop©
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if it's the writers attempt, but for me the Linus/ Widmore dynamic seems to be a metaphor for politics.
There is a battle for control, but I'm not sure of either agenda, or who to root for.
At any rate, there are two things I can always count on Lost to deliver...gun play and religious symbolism.
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ebonX
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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In J Wood's LOST blog, he has a nice analysis on how current wartime themes have been woven into the LOST narrative ...
| J Wood wrote: |
The Iraq War also figures into the background of this entire episode. Lost hasn't directly taken on the Iraq War, but has found some ways to weave it into the seams of the narrative. Ben is in Tikrit — Saddam Hussein's home town — in 2005, and we see U.S. Soldiers patrolling the streets. But more interesting here is Ben's bio of Keamy, a former U.S. Marine from 1996-2001 who then became a mercenary, operating primarily in Uganda. Mercenary firms who hire soldiers of fortune have become a major issue with the Iraq War, particularly with the firm Blackwater. The soldiers of such private military companies (PCMs) do not have to operate under any particularly national laws or guidelines; Blackwater soldiers are not subject to the same rules as the U.S. military, and this has become a real problem for both Iraqis, U.S. soldiers, and the Pentagon. In fact, it's not very clear under whose rules PCM's should operate.
One particular PCM group worked in Uganda during Keamy's time there. The Canadian firm Heritage Oil and Gas is directed by the industrialist Tony Buckingham, who also helped set up the PCM's Executive Outcomes and Sandline. Sandline's manager was a former British special forces officer — in the Royal Scots Regiment, like Desmond — named Tim Spicer. Sandline shared offices with Heritage Oil and Gas, and closed its doors in 2004, but was known for being contracted to stage a paramilitary takeover of Bougainvillea, Papua New Guinea in 1997; contracting with the ousted Sierra Leone president in 1998; and aiding in a rebel coup of Liberia's president Charles Taylor.
Of note is that in 1997 Heritage Oil and Gas started to explore western Uganda, and in 2002 secured a contract for 3.1 million hectares of easter Democratic Republic of Congo from President Joseph Kabila, land bordering Uganda. The extent of paramilitary activity to help secure the contract isn't known, but 3.1 million hectares is an astonishing amount of land for a nation to parcel out to a private company, especially if that land is oil-rich and the country could use the resource.
After Sandline and Executive Outcomes folded, many of the major players, including Spicer, were folded into another British PCM, Aegis Defense Services. In 2004 Aegis was awarded a massive three-year contract with the Pentagon to work in Iraq, alongside Blackwater. The 2007 videos of a security detail driving through Baghdad and shooting at passing vehicles — to the soundtrack of Elvis' "Mystery Train" — were leaked onto a website run by an employee of Aegis. Aegis sued to have the web page taken down. Both the U.S. military and Aegis conducted investigations, but since Aegis is a private company, the results are confidential.
Is this the kind of outfit Keamy worked for in Uganda? |
An interesting commentary on the current state of warfare ... What rules do PCMs have to abide by? Does the Geneva Convention apply to terrorists?
Also, an interesting analogy can be made between the Iraq War and Ben's statement of how Widmore "changed the rules".
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Mark B
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Terrorists by the very nature of what they do don't abide by the Geneva Convention. But then I wonder in real war how many "civilised" armies don't cross that boundary.
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Mark B.
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ebonX
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark B wrote: |
| Terrorists by the very nature of what they do don't abide by the Geneva Convention. But then I wonder in real war how many "civilised" armies don't cross that boundary. |
I agree that the Geneva Convention does not apply to terrorists (by the very nature that defines what a terrorist is), but then why is there such a controversy over prisoner treatment (Guatmo, etc), if said documents to not apply to terrorists (or any combatant opposition in the Iraq War)?
Your comment of armies not "crossing that boundary" is also very thought-provoking ... In the Iraq War, it seems as if both sides have "side-stepped the Geneva Convention", as it is now Terrorists vs. Private Military Consultants, thus "changing the rules".
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Mark B
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ebonX wrote: |
| Mark B wrote: |
| Terrorists by the very nature of what they do don't abide by the Geneva Convention. But then I wonder in real war how many "civilised" armies don't cross that boundary. |
I agree that the Geneva Convention does not apply to terrorists (by the very nature that defines what a terrorist is), but then why is there such a controversy over prisoner treatment (Guatmo, etc), if said documents to not apply to terrorists (or any combatant opposition in the Iraq War)?
Your comment of armies not "crossing that boundary" is also very thought-provoking ... In the Iraq War, it seems as if both sides have "side-stepped the Geneva Convention", as it is now Terrorists vs. Private Military Consultants, thus "changing the rules". |
Because the people in Guatanomo Bay are not proven terrorists, just suspects. The prisoners of war should be treated as per the Geneva Convention. And even if they are terrorists as people who abhore such we should rise above and treat them by the GC which we agreed to or else we'd be just as bad as them (cue someone posting that terrorists deserve everything they get).
In a similar way Ben was not a proven bad guy when tortured by Sayid the Losties only had the word of Danielle who herself had tortured Sayid. OK Ben turned out to be a bad person but is he the bad or just on a different side.
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Matt Lafferty
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'll say this: the discussion here has caused me to have a non-partisan rethink of my 9/11 Lost theory... one of these days I'll flesh it out in writing. Methinks it'll be good.
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jg
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:44 am Post subject: |
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I see the Iraq war references in the context that it may be the currrent rendition of mankind's foray into the Fog of War (the uncertainty that descends over a battlefield once fighting begins.) With the stress and license of war, man's base personalities are laid bare. The cruelty and fear that we usually can suppress... express themselves.
I think the audiences feelings of ambiguity regarding the Iraq war will be mirrored in LOST. We will probably come to realize that Ben is a bad "good guy" and Widmore is a bad "bad guy" (there is a certain indelible taint one gets if he hires mercenaries. I don't see any excuse for this). Do the Ends justify the Means?
Btw,the documentary film The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara may have some pertinence here as well:
1. Empathize with your enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There's something beyond one's self.
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
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Last edited by jg on Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ebonX
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark B wrote: |
| Because the people in Guatanomo Bay are not proven terrorists, just suspects. The prisoners of war should be treated as per the Geneva Convention. And even if they are terrorists as people who abhore such we should rise above and treat them by the GC which we agreed to or else we'd be just as bad as them (cue someone posting that terrorists deserve everything they get). |
@ Mark B,
In the case of Guatmo, I think the main controversy is whether you believe that a terrorist (or suspected to be one) are actually considered to be prisoners of war, and thus the big question is whether or not the GC is even applicable.
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