how did ben get to the tunisian desert ?
I'm sure it has something to do with the island hotspots that the writers were talking about... He obviously didn't take desmond's boat !
Could the passageway be in his secret little cave ?
Does it have anything to do with smokey ?
we're missing some information....
maybe jacob will shed the light on all of this.
I think it's pretty well established that there is a way to transport yourself off the island. It has to do with 'The Box' that Ben used to bring Locke's dad to the island. Some kind of teleportation.
At the beginning of this new episode, when Ben is lying on the ground in Tunisia, he has obviously just arrived via teleportation.
I'm sure Ben teleported but I am wondering how he got his cut. Was this inflicted prior to the teleportation or during ? Is it some side effect a la the early transporter technology on Star Trek that occasionally screwed up and lost parts of the person transporting. I got the impression the cut was new and he got it whilst teleporting.
Also is Ben going forwards or backwards in time ? My feeling is from the past into the future in which case how did he know what date to go to be there to manipulate Sayid ? _________________ Mark B.
<insert slightly amusing one liner or meaningful famous quote here >
I'm sure Ben teleported but I am wondering how he got his cut. Was this inflicted prior to the teleportation or during ? Is it some side effect a la the early transporter technology on Star Trek that occasionally screwed up and lost parts of the person transporting. I got the impression the cut was new and he got it whilst teleporting.
Also is Ben going forwards or backwards in time ? My feeling is from the past into the future in which case how did he know what date to go to be there to manipulate Sayid ?
Both are excellent points, Mark.
I'll take a different guess at the point about the cut (I feel like I'm always complimenting your great ideas then always being contrary... no hard feelings, brother!). Wouldn't it be a fun scene (when we finally get there) for Ben to be running towards "the transporter" while a baddie is chasing him... Ben is charing the machine up, the baddie says "And now, you die," and pulls the trigger... just as the transporter glows or beeps or whatever. Ben suddenly looks around... hey, he's not dead, he's in Tunisia! A close miss for old Mr. Linus.
As for the time issue, great catch; it is nicely mentioned in plain sight, then promptly forgotten, that there IS this time issue. It seems to possibly contrast ebonX's time travel theory (found here. Surely more to come on this point. _________________ "So we saved the world together for a while, and that was lovely." --Desmond
I agree with the baddie chasing Ben into the transporter. I'm almost certain that in one of the Star Treks Kirk, Picard, Janeway or some other person is shot as the transporter does it's whoopy thing and when they turn up they have been hit.
For some reason I got the impression that Ben's cut was due to some kind of sword-like impliment not a bullet.
As for the time issue, it would be easier to explain if Ben came back from the future and so was able to get to Sayid as he'd know the date but Ms. Hawking would have something to say about that and I don't wan to get my brain all freid again thinging about time travel ! _________________ Mark B.
<insert slightly amusing one liner or meaningful famous quote here >
Just had an idea about the time travel thing. Two options;
OPTION A : Widmore killed Nadia -- I'm not sure why he would but whatever.
1. Ben travels forward in time to, I don't know, 2006.
2. Does some research on the O6. Finds out Sayids wife was murdered by Widmores chums in Oct 2005.
3. Goes back to the island where time is earlier.
4. Ben travels forward to the day we see.
OPTION B : Ben is real bad
1. At some stage Ben goes forward to earlier in October 2005.
2. Ben kills Nadia
3. Ben returns to island, where it's earlier in time.
4. Ben travels forward to the day we see.
This all assumes Ben can go back and forth from the island which given all the passports and stuff seems reasonable. _________________ Mark B.
<insert slightly amusing one liner or meaningful famous quote here >
All good theories but I'm still not totally convinced that some sort
of transporter is invovled.
Could Ben just have been in the desert (for some reason) - he got
shot (flesh wound) fell and passed out for a little while.
The folks who shoot at him then ride up to Ben - The 2 horsemen.
I'm not dismissing that it might be a transporter device but the
above could be a simpler explanation.
I am in agreement with Tahir! I too am not yet convinced that Ben simply teleported into the middle of the Sahara Desert ... Ben has 9+ months from the current events on the Island to his time in Tunisia.
I actually think him using Desmond's boat (The "Elizabeth") to get off-Island in the future is a very viable option ... I had actually previously posited the theory that the "O6" would use that boat to get off the Island, but Ben using it instead is also completely plausible. _________________ "Destiny is a fickle bitch!" - Benjamin Linus
Last edited by ebonX on Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
Im just confused why he's wearing such a big jacket in the desert like that, im in agreement with people over the teleportation thing. But i also think that it might be somewhat unpredictable and the area where people get transpoted can vary.
Or Maybe ben actually got off the island earlier and didnt teleport from the island to the desert but from the artic. If theres dharma stations on the island whats saying there isnt any off the island.
This might explain why he's wearing an artic style jacket and why theres also a polar bear with a dharma crest found on it in tunisia.
Also, I would like to point out something that "rok" on Lostacasts.com pointed out:
This episode makes clear that Ben has let people beat the crap out of him.
After seeing this episode, I think he could have reached down Jack's throat, pulled out his esophagus and chocked him with it.
- He is wearing Hollowax's jacket, and the station symbol kinda looks teleport-y.
- Last we saw Hallowax, he was delaing with teleporting bunnies.
- If Dharma was using Polar bears for teleporting, it might be because it is a very cold experience.
- When Ben pukes in the desert, it looks very similar to the orange/yellow liquid Juliet drank before heading to the island.
- The tranlsation I saw on another site was that the horseman said there were no tracks.
So if Ben did not teleport, the writers are doing everything possible to indicate he did.
The interesting thing I thought was that he knew exactly where he was, yet he didn't know what date it was. He looked relieved (I think) when she said 2005, but he wasn't sure.
Now then... theory time... I don't know if I'm coming a little late to the party, and I haven't had a chance to read all the posts here. I'll be more up to date in the future. You guys let me know if I'm being repetitive. Here's a pretty solid theory about Ben, the Orchid Station and teleportation:
The short version of this theory: the Orchid Station, made famous in the orientation video that was circulated at the San Diego Comicon, houses a wormhole that allows for teleportation/time travel, due to the Island's unique properties. This might not be the central mystery of the Island, but it's certainly a big part of it. I'll build this theory up step-by-step:
(1) The Orchid Station Orientation Video
First off, our Asian narrator is back. Formerly Marc Wickmund and Marvin Candle, he is now Edgar Halliwax. Although, in this video, he has both arms intact. You can see the video here: http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Orchid. Halliwax begins by apologizing for deceiving the viewer by telling him that the Orchid was not a botanical research station. He goes on to say that the Island has a certain "Casimir Effect," which, if you look on Wikipedia, is a phenomenon associated with quantum mechanics, wormholes and faster than light travel. Later in the video, bunny #15 appears to duplicate, hysteria ensues, and Halliwax shouts about keeping the bunnies separate -- likely to avoid creating a paradox.
(2) Charlotte Discovers a Polar Bear Skeleton
In the second episode of this season, we meet Charlotte Staples Lewis (a derivative of C.S. Lewis, implying that she's been to the Island once before -- read Narnia: Prince Caspian for details). She's in the desert in Tunisia and she discovers a polar bear skeleton in the sand, with it's characteristic Dharma logo collar, from the Hydra Station. We don't quite know what to make of the skeleton at first, but Lindelof and Cuse, in an official podcast, told us to pay attention to the Orchid video and the polar bear skeleton, and remarked that the polar bear and the bunny have similarities.
(3) Ben Wakes Up Shivering & Steaming
Then, this week, we see Ben awake in the middle of the Sahara, also in Tunisia. He's red-faced, he's shivering with cold, and he is literally steaming. Fresh from the Arctic, anyone? He's wearing a heavy coat with the name "Halliwax" on it and the coat also bears a Dharma logo that we haven't seen before, a large series of concentric circles, shrinking to a single point. Ben also looks to have a pretty severe cut on his arm.
(4) Putting It All Together
It's no great leap to assume that the Orchid Station houses a wormhole and that Ben travels through the wormhole at some point soon. It may not be in October 2005 (as he is told in by the hotel clerk). After all, it is hard to know how much time will pass when Ben steps through the wormhole. But it is clear that Ben was most definitely SOMEWHERE ELSE before he winds up in the Tunisian desert.
Not only is he in a jacked that at one point belonged to Halliwax, but the new Dharma Orchid logo looks very much like a portal -- the concentric circles collapsing on themselves is sort an established image of a portal or teleportation. The gash on Ben's arm is also interesting. Pure coincidence that Halliwax/Candle/Wickmund loses an arm at one point? Might he lose it experimenting with the Orchid wormhole? I am doubtful, but the connection is intersting.
So the question remains: where was Ben? Where did he come from? Where is the Orchid Station? Conventional wisdom suggests that he was someplace cold, even arctic, and some have drawn connections between the Orchid Station and the listening post where Penny had her two Portuguese-speaking guys that called her on the night that Desmond turned the key.
I'd like to propose an alternate explanation. The Orchid Station is on the Island -- it may not be in the arctic -- but, in order to use it, you face extreme temperature change. Maybe the process of wormhole travel itself is extremely cold. And, once you're done with it, it punts you out into blistering heat in the Tunisian desert. Dharma would need an especially robust test subject to experiment with the wormhole, something that could handle climatic extremes.
Now then, if you remember back to the Blast Door map that trapped Locke, you may recall this entry in the lower right-hand corner of the map: "Stated Goal: Repatriation accelerated de-territorialization of ursus maritimus [polar bear] through gene therapy and extreme climate change." Starting to sound familiar to anyone? The polar bears were Dharma's test subjects in the Orchid wormhole -- hence the skeleton in the Tunisian desert that Charlotte discovered -- and the reason they were exposing the polar bears to extreme heat was to help them survive the trip through the wormhole to the Sahara and back.
I'm with you, Radzinsky, on that Ben wasn't necessarily anywhere cold.
I'm not sure I buy that he was shivering anyway, rather than just shaking due to however he got there (he stopped shivering very quickly upon 'waking up'). Either that or the getting there involved being made very cold.
It's definitely connected to the Orchid, the teleporting bunny and the polar bear (also in Tunisia) though, for sure, but as I say, I'm not sure he had any, or very consistent, control over when he would get there.
I think that's right, opsin -- the shaking could be a part of the wormhole-traveling process, as could the extreme cold. Some people are trying to make a connection between Penny Widmore's arctic listening post and the Orchid Station, but I'm not so sure the wormhole transports you to the arctic. It could just be that the PROCESS of wormhole-travel is: (1) extremely cold, (2) otherwise makes you shake, (3) makes you puke up orange Hi-C, and/or (4) slices you in the arm.
I do wonder about the puking up orange gunk... I was convinced Juliet hadn't drank it for that purpose, but given that they knocked her out, the sub could just be as much a ploy: "Here's how you got to this island in the middle of th epacific, it was on this sub". All just to persuade her she hadn't been teleported from afar.
She had no idea how much time had passed, but for her to still be unconscious until when they pretty got there, well, it was otherwise a loooong journey!
At the time Not in Portland was aired many people said that the sub was a fake and Juliet got there some other way. The fact that Ben and his Dad and others seemed to arrive on the sub (in The Man Behind the Curtain) and were not shown being drugged made people suggest that the sub was in the way they got to the island.
Maybe there are two ways, by sub (or boat on a particular heading) and by 'teleportation'. The fact that Ben was able to send Alpert out to get 'The Man from Tallahasee' and have him on the island so quickly suggests that they must be able to teleport some people onto the island. Teleportation may be more dangerous but avoids the issues that Des had in "The Constant". _________________ Mark B.
<insert slightly amusing one liner or meaningful famous quote here >
And to add to what you're saying, Mark -- the fact that Ben appeared to be a regular customer at the hotel in Tunisia -- a VIP, I believe -- implies that he, and perhaps other Others, used the wormhole relatively often.
And to add to what you're saying, Mark -- the fact that Ben appeared to be a regular customer at the hotel in Tunisia -- a VIP, I believe -- implies that he, and perhaps other Others, used the wormhole relatively often.
Aye, that was certainly my thought re. Ben being there. One of my friends reckoned it was his first time using the portral, thing, or possibly got there by boat, but it just didn't make any sense particularly considering his longterm deal with the hotel.
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