Writing Seminar II: Writing Ethnicity
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Baldwin, Jordan, Hoffman
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[quote="Sarah"]I suppose that the reason I disagree is because I do not really understand what is meant by "being a sufficient motive for violence" or because I do not believe that there is a sufficient motive for violence ever. Tiffany defines linguistic dispossesion as "a person is unable to express himself verbally, he is isolated, unable to communicate with the world'. When I think of that definition, I have to question if that really exists. It may be a temporary condition but I feel that people eventually adjust and assimilate. Rodriguez learns English. Polish becomes a "dead language". Eva Hoffman writes "We want to be able to give voice accurately and fully to ourselves and our sense of the world". Ouselves and our sense of the world changes. When relating this to « black english », James Baldwin actually states that it came out of being able to communicate ‘‘when neither one could speak the other’s language’’. He also goes further to say that ‘‘If two black people, at that bitter hour of the world’s history, had been able to speak to each other, the institution of chattel slavery could never have lasted as long as it did’’. That is a fascinating thought . Along with the changed in lives, there are changes in language. There are also co-optations of language.. in which people who are not from that background will learn and speak a language. It’s all subjective. It shouldn’t be an excuse for violence. Baldwin also writes ‘‘We, the blacks are in trouble certainly but we are not doomed, and we are not inarticulate because we are not compelles to defend a morality that we know to be a lie’’ We adapt. It is actually fascinating to see how the switch occurs. How people switch between standard english and black english depending on their environment. I am actually working on fine-tuning my switch. How some people automatically speak their native tongue when they become angry or under the influence of alcohol. It is fascinating. Willie Jordan’s story I think is an attempt to link language with experience : Black English with Black experience. Which cannot happen to often in this current day and age, Not only because Black English has evolved but because I do not agree that there is an endemic or essential black experience. I know that there are certain issues that occur more frequently in certain communities ; in lieu of The NYPD's murder of Sean Bell and attempted murders of Trent Benefield and Joseph Guzman, I have to disgree with officer Charles’ comment in June Jordan’s piece ‘‘ Over-reaction, Didn’t have nothing to do with race’. However, it also has to do with American history and socio-economics. The term « reasonable fear » that has been reverberated in newspapers did not occur overnight and not by mistake. Incidents are not isolated but I question if they really have anything to do with linguistics.[/quote]
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Introductions
About the Reading
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DuBois, Hurston, Noda, Rich
Richard Rodriguez
Baldwin, Jordan, Hoffman
Maxine Hong Kingston
Philip Roth
Readings on whiteness
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peterw
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:45 pm
Post subject:
In accordance with Tiffany of the statement "Linguistic dispossession is a sufficient motive for violence…”, I add: “But without this means of ventilation, it only turns back inward, building and swirling like a head of steam-building to an impotent, murderous rage” (Hoffman Pg. 124). It is a natural response to become frustrated and violent when our words do not get across, whether it be from linguistic dispossession or even from within the same language. If we are screaming something because we want someone to understand us, we reach a point where we are looking at the other person and feel helpless because they just don’t comprehend. This feeling of lack of expressiveness builds up inside of us until we reach a boiling point. Now, there are many different ways to avoid this peak. “Blacks developed their own language from the days of slavery in order to survive…people evolve a language in order to describe and thus control their circumstances, or in order not to be submerged by a reality that they cannot articulate” (Baldwin Pg. 170). In this direction, the blacks resort to a derivative of language in order to cope with their inexpressiveness to society and this creates a different way for them to articulate their anger.
Anthony123
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:54 pm
Post subject:
I would say that this statement makes sense. I know for a fact that when I am inarticulate I become frustrated and eventually turn moody, to be more specific, stubborn. It is absolutely difficult for a person to live without being able to express himself.
Francis says that rage and utter violence are not the answer but just imagine yourself in that person's situation. Imagine just not being able to talk, at all. Imagine being mocked, rejected, fooled because of your inability to talk. Wouldn't you just erupt with anger to somehow find attention? "Linguistic dispossesion is a sufficient motive for violence, for it is close to the dispossesion of one's self" (Hoffman 124) Without language you are nothing. "...langauge is also a political instrument, means, and proof of power. It is the most vivid and crucial key to identity." (Baldwin 171) When a person can't speak they have no identity. Just imagine feeling you have no identity. In my personal opinion linguistic dispossesion shouldn't lead to violence at all, violence is never justified but it is human nature to feel violent once you are frustrated, provoked to do something since you feel trapped.
All the essays striked me equally. They all were almost relative. Hoffman discusses the trouble of not being to able to express. James Baldwin discusses how languages form and what do they mean to a person or group of people. Baldwin says that with language "you have confessed your parents, your youth, your school, your salary, your self- esteem, and , alas, your future."
I've never thought about the necessity of language; never thought about how much they mean to identity.
valentina
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Post subject:
I agree that “Linguistic dispossession is [not] a sufficient motive for violence.” If this was such, there would be a real problem with all of those who do not feel comfortable in a language. From the person who is learning to speak the language and cannot fully communicate to the person that knows the language and does not feel like the same person that he/she is in his/her native language. Like the girl in Lost in Translation who after learning English recognizes that “the words I learn now don’t stand for things in the same unquestioned way they did in my native tongue.”
This situation makes me think that Black English is even more important seen along these lines. They have managed a way to speak English with their own identities; “People evolve a language in order to describe and thus control their circumstances, or in order not to be submerged by a reality that they cannot articulate.” They have evolved a language that separates them from the public, but in reality, they would still be separated if they spoke white English. So Black English is a language in which they find their own identities, they accept their position, and they stand up for it.
Kristen
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:56 am
Post subject:
I definitely can see how one would be so extremely frustrated if they could not speak the common language of the place they are living. Hoffman states, "The words float in an uncertain space. They come up from a part of my brain in which labels may be manufactured but which has no connection to my instincts, quick reactions, knowledge." I think this is really interesting because it shows how one can learn a language, but it still may be uncomfortable because it is not theirs. When she grew up speaking a different language, certain words had a certain meaning and she says "aura," but now in English she is torn because words do not seem to fit. They no longer carry the same meaning that they once did in her native language of Polish. She states, “I’m not filled with language anymore, and I have only a memory of fullness to anguish me with the knowledge that, in this dark and empty state, I don’t really exist.” This is sad to me because it shows how because she knew another language so precisely, the fact that she does not feel as comfortable with English is more evident to her. I can only imagine how difficult and different it must be to want to say something or evoke a feeling and not know the words the help translate your message.
tiffany
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:10 pm
Post subject:
Like Francis, I agree that Willie Jordan shows a great example of taking effective action instead of turning to violence. I too agree that there is no excuse for violence, however do not agree that eventually everyone finds some sort of way to adjust and assimilate. Take Adrienne Rich for example. She may live a successful life, but according to her "Split at the Root" essay, she never fully feels assimilated or adjusted to one particular group or situation. Albeit she does use writing as her way to vent this frustration, there unfortunately will always be numerous others who are unable to discover such a healthy avenue for venting, and in this ignorance turn to violence. Which only continues to separate them from society even more, as Francis stated, leading to more frustration, etc., and basically the whole vicious cycle is continued. It's like the old saying goes, "Actions speak louder than words" and if a person is unable to use his words, all he is left with is action.
Francis
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:14 pm
Post subject:
Like Sarah, I disagree with Hoffman’s statement about there “being a sufficient motive for violence.” It is true that linguistic dispossession makes a person feel helpless and frustrated. If you are not able to communicate with the world in which you live you may feel isolated. However rage and utter violence are not the answer. Fighting linguistic obscurity with violence only leads a person to be more ostracized from the society in which they live. Through the use of violence the person is seen as ignorant and further seen as an “outsider” or a problem in society.
Like Tiffany, the reading that stuck with me the most was the piece by June Jordan which includes Willie Jordan’s essay.
“Something has to be done about the way in which this world is set up. Although it is a difficult task, we have the power to make change.” (199)
Through this statement we see how Willie is able to master the language of the “whites” in order to bring about awareness to a problem that is occurring to his people. He does not use violence to show his frustration, he uses the tool that the “white” man has used for so many years to oppress his people; Willie uses his education.
Sarah
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:46 pm
Post subject: Linguistic Dispossesion
I suppose that the reason I disagree is because I do not really understand what is meant by "being a sufficient motive for violence" or because I do not believe that there is a sufficient motive for violence ever. Tiffany defines linguistic dispossesion as "a person is unable to express himself verbally, he is isolated, unable to communicate with the world'. When I think of that definition, I have to question if that really exists. It may be a temporary condition but I feel that people eventually adjust and assimilate. Rodriguez learns English. Polish becomes a "dead language".
Eva Hoffman writes "We want to be able to give voice accurately and fully to ourselves and our sense of the world". Ouselves and our sense of the world changes. When relating this to « black english », James Baldwin actually states that it came out of being able to communicate ‘‘when neither one could speak the other’s language’’. He also goes further to say that ‘‘If two black people, at that bitter hour of the world’s history, had been able to speak to each other, the institution of chattel slavery could never have lasted as long as it did’’. That is a fascinating thought . Along with the changed in lives, there are changes in language. There are also co-optations of language.. in which people who are not from that background will learn and speak a language. It’s all subjective. It shouldn’t be an excuse for violence. Baldwin also writes ‘‘We, the blacks are in trouble certainly but we are not doomed, and we are not inarticulate because we are not compelles to defend a morality that we know to be a lie’’ We adapt. It is actually fascinating to see how the switch occurs. How people switch between standard english and black english depending on their environment. I am actually working on fine-tuning my switch. How some people automatically speak their native tongue when they become angry or under the influence of alcohol. It is fascinating. Willie Jordan’s story I think is an attempt to link language with experience : Black English with Black experience. Which cannot happen to often in this current day and age, Not only because Black English has evolved but because I do not agree that there is an endemic or essential black experience. I know that there are certain issues that occur more frequently in certain communities ; in lieu of The NYPD's murder of Sean Bell and attempted murders of Trent
Benefield and Joseph Guzman, I have to disgree with officer Charles’ comment in June Jordan’s piece ‘‘ Over-reaction, Didn’t have nothing to do with race’. However, it also has to do with American history and socio-economics. The term « reasonable fear » that has been reverberated in newspapers did not occur overnight and not by mistake. Incidents are not isolated but I question if they really have anything to do with linguistics.
tiffany
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:02 pm
Post subject:
I find this statement to be true to the utmost extreme; for if a person is unable to express himself verbally, he is isolated, unable to communicate with the world. Being a native English speaker, I have never experienced said "linguistic dispossession" and cannot imagine how hard it must be going through life not having a language in which to call your own, one in which you can freely express yourself.
Of all the readings, the one that stuck with me the most was the essay by June Jordan, or rather the excerpt written by Willie Jordan.
"I believe that to a large degree, justice may only exist as rhetoric. I find it difficult to talk of injustice when the oppression of my people both at home and abroad attests to the fact that inequality and injustice are serious problems." (199)
In context of the whole essay, I really commend Willie Jordan for his wise observations, and more so for taking that step to foster the "change that we do have the power to make." Or in other words, despite any linguistic differences between Black and Standard English, mastering one to further spread the message of the other.
jaimecleland
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:46 pm
Post subject: linguistic dispossession
On page 124 of the handout, Eva Hoffman writes, "Linguistic dispossession is a sufficient motive for violence, for it is close to the dispossession of one's self. Blind rage, helpless rage is rage that has no words -- rage that overwhelms one with darkness. And if one is perpetually without words, if one exits in the entropy of inarticulateness, that condition itself is bound to be an enraging frustration." How do you evaluate this statement, in relation to the other readings? You might concentrate on Baldwin and Jordan, but feel free to bring in earlier readings. Please post at least once before noon on January 12. As always, aim to engage with others' comments and to post at least 200 words.
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